Should we have money?

Money in persistent world is definatly something that we are divided and unsure about, now money would do a lot of good things.
-money would be like a points system, people would compete to get the most money which would definitaly boost the intrest in Pw
-money could allow people to be rewarded for doing things
-money as a currency could be good motivation to buy shops and make PW a bustling Market place
-and more

but apart from all the good things it creates it also creates one thing that balances out all of the good things it does. It adds complexity and that would be annoying for a lot of people.

If we were to have A money system, everyone would be added to the money list, at the start of the game I would appear as hextriplet 0 but as I gain money I would become hextriplet 50 and maybe even hextriplet 420.
If a transition was made from a player to me they would say my name and then the amount that is added to me,
so hextriplet 10
lots of mods would keep it constantly updated and it would allow for money to be simple.


Shouldd we have money?

Just top sum up what I have spread across the forum already on this topic.

While I believe money should be an aspect of the PW I don't think it should be a driving force. Money is a VERY limiting thing, people would need it to travel, people would need it for recreation, people would need it just to live. And honestly, If I can conjure up a fire ball, why do I need a job? I can steal all the money or items I want until another person as strong tries to stop me, but why are they following the rule? Why arn't they doing the same thing I'm doing? At this point we get into character and all that but it would be easier and more appealing to be an outlaw hwo gets whatever they want through force rather than go and roleplay a few ours of janitorial work for a paycheck that sevearly limits their options.

A real ecnomoy doesn't have to exsist in a PW, you know where all that gold comes from in WOW? No where and everyone is fine with that. Plus when you get economics involved you get politics involved too and thats no fun at all, it will be much simpler if we don't make money a focus but that little detail that gives the impression of a real world.

I don't think we need a defined and organized money system that people actually have to keep track of. Too much trouble-- there can be money, but not like "So and So has 3 dollars" or whatever.

Bunnay wrote:I don't think we need a defined and organized money system that people actually have to keep track of. Too much trouble-- there can be money, but not like "So and So has 3 dollars" or whatever.

Maybe in the future as an incentive to contributing to the community, but not to start off with.

I was thinking that there could be a thread that would keep track of it for you.
And to be honest, money would be a choice. Someone refuses you a sword - you steal it and run

Well remember, there are two aspects of a "money" system for PbP games. The first aspect is what everyone is worried about, but the second is what seems to be ignored.

Yes, money is meant for one thing and always will be, because of its definition as a currency; that one meaning is its use as a collateral to attain something of equal value.

The first aspect is the complicated economy that we seem to have our heads wrapped around and debating over. We like the sound of the real-world touch and feel, but we are afraid of the economics and politics. We are afraid of the limiting factor it causes against PW.

Very well, I can understand these motives for not wanting the system. But that is a system with no or little control. When you let a system go loose and hold itself up with few boundaries, then it limits everything else. But when you control it yourself and limit it, then the rest of the environment has more freedom.

My point and final proposition on the matter: The second aspect. Instead of using "money" or a physical currency that directly impacts that real-time workings of Persistent World, we can have the off-side rewards of "points" or "cookies" or "smiley faces" or whatever the hell else you want to call it, to act as a special collateral for those items of equal value that give the character a special boost.

Allow me to elaborate:

If I can conjure up a fire ball, why do I need a job?

A job system was never proposed. In fact, an economy in general was never a proposition. It was a fear, or a misunderstanding, or a "well I don't want to see it in this game" suggestion. I have already demonstrated in a previous thread that (similar to Gaia) points can be awarded automatically through an internal script whenever a user makes a post or a thread, or uses a "thanks" button (which I have not yet activated - as its a separate function that ties into the points system).

By activating this same system, we can encourage more participation by awarding points for posts that are made in certain forums of the board (the amount of points awarded can be controlled, as well as where they are awarded). The points can be redeemed for items like:

Your own animal
Your own race
Your own super weapon
Your own [When a man and a women make babys]-change
A username change
A change in user rank
etc.

As you can see, they don't have to items that have a direct impact on the world. But items that affect the user themselves, more so than their character (the exception, of course, would be the tranny )

This takes away the fear of complexity because the system is 50% automated. The only manual work will lie with the administrators, who have the power to subtract a user's points for redemption, or award points based on special cases. The script will take care of the rest; so no thread is needed to yell out to everyone that your points have been updated. That is most unnecessary system of them all anyway when you already have an automated script doing this for you. So I have no clue where that came about.

Secondly, (as I already mentioned) this type of system encourages participation. This is something you guys desperately need at the moment. It acts as water against the flaming inferno of negativity. So it only works in your favor.

This also encourages fair competition. There is no way to cheat the system (unless you have an unfair administrator, but since RpG officially owns Persistent World (according to International Copyright Law), you shouldn't have to fear that; as you have Mahz and his team of actual moderators to lay down the law).

Do you get now what I have been trying to propose?

We won't be able to do that on RpG though.

We're running the BETA PW 4.0 on here though.
And from the looks of how Mahz isn't answering our messages,
We MIGHT just wanna keep PW on here for good...
I'm starting to think it would be a better idea because no only is the majority of the member base against it, but the mods too.

Hex wrote:We won't be able to do that on RpG though.

From a logical stand point, hosting PW on RpG is a bad idea and is most what led to its failure. A forum board dedicated to free-form roleplaying, harboring a community of 3,000 members that are accustomed to this attitude, and a moderation team that also supports this type of roleplaying... its basically a recipe for failure.

Whereas, hosting PW on a forum dedicated to it, and designed for it, offers a far greater chance of survivability, as well as realism. You, as a primary advocate and actor of PW, have more administrative control. Not that this is a power-grab, but if you want it to work, then you must be willing to adapt to a desperately needed change; which is moving PW to someplace more suited and more built for it.

I PM'd you, Rouge.

If you agree, copy-paste what I said here for everyone to see. I brought up 2 good points, I believe.

Aka; Hosting on RPG is a bad idea, so far. All 3 PW's have failed before, maybe if we do it here it will last.

Bunnay wrote:As I said in the "Should we have money" thread, and in the Mod hide-out, Mahz hasn't replied to any of my or Hex's messages and the way everyone seems so negative about PW on rpg...we might want to consider permanently hosting PW on here. There ARE some advantages to this:

1.) Fewer members right now means better interaction and development. We'll get more members later but few members to start with is a good thing to work with.

2.) We'll have 100% power over everything unlike on the guild.

^ Nevermind, Rouge I got it :3

I also agree that putting PW on an external forum like this one might be a good idea but we have to be careful not to end up advertising a seperate site as that is against the RPG rules. And believe me, it is kinda hard to get members right off the internet without some form of advertising or a large group to draw from. Such a group could be the RPG community but again we have the problem with the rules.

Anyways, back to the money. I am fully aware how Gaia operated as I used to have an account and it was actually where my first PW was placed (in a private forum known as the Red Dragon Syndicate or RDS for short.)and I how the whole gold system worked also. I am perfectly fine with a system that affects just the user and not so much the gameplay mechanics but I just don't think we need the fictional characters to be bothered with it.

I think it is a very good idea to make additional characters cost "points" so that people don't make liek ten different characters and have seperate browser windows for each one, talk about your own private army.

If PW sustains on this different forum I don't want to be a part.

Why not, Hex? o.o

Just really wanted this for PW

Think about this for a minute. It can still be a part of RPG but on a different server so that those who created it can be in a better position to control and modify it. Of course we will probably have to grant some of the RPG admins Mod status here also but as long as the development team has the ability to make quick and controlled changes when neccessary then the world should work better.

We don't have to grant anyone mod/admin if we don't want to, Rook. Being offsite, it can still be a part of RPG in the sense that its an affiliate site where PW takes place-- but since Hex is the founder, and not Mahz, we don't -have- to give power to anyone if we don't want to.

if this idea gets denied we might have to do it seperate all together. and as for mods and admins I'm going to be begging for one of those titles

Rook wrote:Think about this for a minute. It can still be a part of RPG but on a different server so that those who created it can be in a better position to control and modify it. Of course we will probably have to grant some of the RPG admins Mod status here also but as long as the development team has the ability to make quick and controlled changes when neccessary then the world should work better.

First, its called a parked domain. I can instruct Hex how to do this once (and if) Mahz creates a sub-domain for the board (ex. pw.roleplayerguild.com). Once the domain is in place, we can park it using the Misc. tab in the ACP (which only Hex has access to because he/she is the board's "founder" and has more administrative control than I do (otherwise I would have done this already to shut everyone up).

Bunnay wrote:We don't have to grant anyone mod/admin if we don't want to, Rook. Being offsite, it can still be a part of RPG in the sense that its an affiliate site where PW takes place-- but since Hex is the founder, and not Mahz, we don't -have- to give power to anyone if we don't want to.

Second, yes we do. If the moderation team of RpG requests it, we are expected to promote their accounts to the same level of status (or equal to) that they have at RpG. Reason: Persistent World belongs, legally, to Roleplayer Guild, and to claim it as our own violates Article L122-1 of the ICC.

Grayecastle wrote:if this idea gets denied we might have to do it seperate all together. and as for mods and admins I'm going to be begging for one of those titles

I'm only the technical advisor here, but I'll assume that immediately prior to PW IV's beta release, Hex and Bunnay will scout our potential leaders for these positions.